BUCK: Clay, one of the issues while we were talking to number 45 itself is that you look at the ways things are not going in the right direction in the country. He mentioned the border. Honestly, we could have spent an hour talking about the US-Mexico border situation and how a complete and utter mess it is these days. The economy, of course, is not where it should be. And that’s not just our opinion; that’s the opinion of, what, 75% of Americans right now, something along those lines.
But on crime too, you know, there’s been a slow recognition that the more radical progressive prosecutors, the Soros-backed prosecutors. You have former DA Boudin in San Francisco who was fired and now you have Gascon who could be fired in Los Angeles. They cleared that hurdle in July to launch the rappel. You have Larry Krasner in Philadelphia, another Soros-backed DA. I think… Well, you have Kim Foxx in Chicago. Marilyn Mosby, I think, in Baltimore. I think she has other problems these days, legal problems. The fact that there are a lot of prosecutors that everyone has realized what they are doing is reckless. But it is much more than that. It’s the whole system, right? That’s the way the police – and we had a fantastic interview with Rafael Mangual about it.
CLAY: He was great.
BUCK: He’s so good. You know, we always try to bring people in if they’re a specific subject matter expert with deep expertise on that. He’s at the Manhattan Institute. He has a book, Was it Criminal (In)Justice, I believe, and he was talking about how the whole system, there were all these breakdowns. It’s an intentional change, and Democrats pushed that. It’s not both sides of the aisle, which brings me to this article from the New York Post: “New York City’s Burglar and Robber Recidivism Rates Soar Amid Bail Reform .” This is based on NYPD data.
Clay, about one in five felons who were arrested for burglary or theft were arrested on an additional felony charge within 60 days of being released to the streets. I mean, it’s… One of the biggest problems we’ve seen is, one, people aren’t being punished by the criminal justice system for repeat offenses in a way that will prevent them from continuing to do that. And also generally, when their interaction with the criminal justice system — that’s true in New York; that’s true all over the country – is so minimal that they often end up happening. People who break the law keep creating much more serious crimes, which is why we see someone in broad daylight shooting like a… You know, it was a carjacking gone wrong or something . You find that this person has been arrested 15 times for shoplifting, burglary, all of those things.
CLAY: Buck, here’s an easy way to think about it for anyone listening. You have just gone through a lot of names of big city attorneys. How many times did you even know the name of the DA in the 90s and 2000s?
BUCK: My own town. That’s it.
CLAY: That’s right. Other than your own city – and you even had to be somehow plugged into your own city to know the DA. These names we all know: Gascon in LA; Krasner, as you said, in Philadelphia. From coast to coast, we know that. Alvin Bragg and the choices he makes as a prosecutor in New York. The prosecutors are so out of control and crime has skyrocketed so much that many of us can just drop the names of the prosecutors because they do such valuable work. And I would tell you that being an AD is a lot like being a referee or an umpire in sports. If we’re talking about your name, you probably did something that’s a bad job. Because I can’t even remember in the 90s and the 2000s, even in the early 2010s, Buck, where you could write as many prosecutors’ names on the tip of your tongue as we can now.
BUCK: I mentioned the Baltimore City attorney – the state’s attorney – Marilyn Mosby. In fact, she just finished… I knew she had been in the news for the past few days. She finished last in her re-election bid for that position. She will also face a federal trial in September on mortgage fraud and perjury charges –
CLAY: It’s not ideal.
BUCK: – which if you’ve seen The Wire, remember –
CLAY: Oh, yeah.
BUCK: – there’s a Baltimore politician they’re trying to get for mortgage fraud, which may be mortgage fraud… When they decide to go after them, it’s a pretty serious crime.
CLAY: And like we said, in Baltimore in particular, it’s such a perfect window into where violent crime comes from, Buck. You mentioned the number of repeat offenders, people who commit crimes end up on the street. One of the data points in this analysis that was done for the Wall Street Journal of the Baltimore murders showed that 90 of the 110 murders that had been committed in a particular area were committed by people who had previously been in jail for violent crimes. and shouldn’t have come out.
Not only were they in jail, but they were convicted, and if they had been in jail, you could have taken out all those murders, which goes your way because you worked with the NYPD. It’s a tiny percentage of people who blatantly break the law and make cities unsafe for whites, blacks, Asians, and Hispanics around the world. We have far less than 1% of particular high crime neighborhoods and far less than 1% of the people who live there. We just have to get the bad guys and keep them in jail.
BUCK: But just getting rid of the more left-wing progressive prosecutors — so it’s Gascon, the ones we named, Boudin, Mosby, Kim Foxx in Chicago — remember, she’s the one who not only… Fox has a particularly interesting legacy.
CLAY: – expertise?
BUCK: She not only made the Jussie Smollett affair disappear, but tried to seal it –
BUCK: – so no one can ever reopen it or watch it again, tried to make it all go away for his buddy, Jussie Smollett. It was horrible corruption. It was so obvious what had happened there. But getting rid of those individual bad actors – and that’s really the point. That’s why I think the New York Post’s analysis of NYPD crime data on recidivism is so interesting. It’s not just the individuals that… It’s the doers of it. The whole ideology of ending mass incarceration must be rejected. People need to understand that this, oh, we need to stop locking people up for 30 years for possession of marijuana.
That’s actually not what was happening. I’m not saying there haven’t been incidents here and there where the criminal justice system got it wrong or picked on somebody — you know, punished somebody too harshly . Obviously that is one thing and it should be addressed. But instead of looking at these individual cases, the ideology turned to the left wing, the progressive belief system was, we just need to lock up fewer people. In Philadelphia, they dropped the overall prison population in a few hours, I think it was, about 40%. You know, you look at the Pennsylvania state prisons that Philadelphia used to send people to; they’ve had a huge reduction in the prison population, but it’s not because there’s been a huge reduction in crime, folks. So instead of handling this in a sensible way, they just decided to act like if we let people out, everything will be fine. It’s pretty crazy.
CLAY: It’s kind of become racist to put criminals behind bars. And that’s why, to me, a destructive argument of that one – because you’ll hear, if you’re there right now, and maybe you’ve been in your daily life, maybe your kids , maybe one of your friends comes out and says, well the criminal justice system is racist because there are too many minorities behind bars, that’s a common argument on the left, I would just ask you to wow people by saying, why don’t you pretend it’s sexist? Because men are massively put behind bars. And they will say –
BUCK: Yeah, disparate impact is a bad theory to apply to criminal justice –
CLAY: But they’ll say…
BUCK: – any context.
CLAY: – they’ll say right away, well, it’s because men are committing more crimes.
GOAT: It’s true.
CLAY: You just said, exactly. Like, the criminals are the people who are put behind bars. It is not a choice that is made. And that’s why murder, which we’ve talked about, is one of the crime statistics that’s usually, usually reliable because there’s a corpse involved. You can discuss drug dealing, you can discuss violent, even violent crime. But murder is where, when there’s a corpse, there’s a sense enough, somebody shot, a sense enough that it didn’t happen by their own hand, there’s a crime. And if you look at the data, the data doesn’t reflect the population. Men commit almost all the murders.
BUCK: Almost all sexual assaults too. There are a number of serious robberies — all at gunpoint. How many times have you seen a recent armed robbery by a woman?
CLAY: That’s right.
BUCK: It happens, but it’s…
CLAY: Very rare.
BUCK: — small overall percentage.
CLAY: And no one would buy the argument that the police are sexist because they arrest men too often. I gotta get to where the crime is, and we gotta arrest these guys, and they’re mostly men, and we gotta put them behind bars for the full sentences, and then be like it’s 90s again, Buck . We know the miracle is starting to happen. Crime goes down when the bad guys are behind bars.
BUCK: It’s amazing. Yeah, turns out the most obvious thing –
CLAY: – there, and that’s the answer to reclaiming our cities and our streets and making them safe again.